I want to thank all the fire community for all the input you guys have provided to us and, and I would like to get some more feed back. Trick Concepts will be introducing Meteors and Rope Darts within the next month or so and we want to make sure we make them how you want. Our tentative plan is to offer several “poi type” fire head options for the wick, followed by 1 ft of twisted link chain and then securely attach it to a rope. Up to this point, I think it is fairly straight forward. My big question is what type of rope is preferred. I am looking at the following options:
1. Kevlar with Kevlar core.
2. Cotton bondage type rope
3. Soft braided cotton with Nylon Core
4. Cotton with steel cable core.
5. Twisted cotton
We will consider offering more than one option if there is a lot of different preferences.
Here are the advantages and disadvantages I see with each. There may be some factors I have forgotten.
1. Kevlar with Kevlar core: This is a good durable rope with medium flexibility. It is pricy, but the price is no prohibitive. I am mostly wondering if there are any undesirable properties, such as hard on the hands, etc.
2. Cotton bondage type rope: This will probably be your softest and more flexible rope. It is probably also the weakest, but at ½” diameter, it should be plenty strong.
3. Soft braided cotton with Nylon Core: This rope should be easy on the hands, and quite strong with the nylon core. This is a fairly flexible rope. I am not overly concerned with the nylon melting, because it is encased in the cotton and there will be good separation between the fire and the rope. This rope may have slight design patterns in it because it is used for nautical purposes. If the demand is sufficient, we may be able to have it custom made or dyed.
4. Cotton with steel cable core: This is a unique option because it can eliminate the link chain. The handle part can be made of soft cotton, and it can be striped down to cable on the fire ends. This makes for a continuous tool with no links, chains, knots or couplings along its length. Because of the steel core, this rope will be a bit stiffer. We currently only have this available up to 3/8” diameter, but we can probably find larger if there is a demand.
5. Twisted cotton: The twisted cotton will probably be harder on the hands and will be fairly stiff. This rope has the option of being braided back upon itself for a clean loop.
If you know of another type of rope that we have missed, let us know. We have ruled out any ropes that will melt.
What size rope is preferred? I was planning on using ½” or similar.
Do you prefer a stiffer rope or a softer rope?
Has anyone made a meteor that has a rigid handle in the middle, with chain coming out each end? I would make it from an aluminum tube for the handle and put a chuck swivel on each end. I am not sure if this has been done, but it would be like a looser version of a segmented staff.
Anyhow, this is your chance to influence our designs before we start making product. We greatly appreciate any input.
~Jaz
1. Kevlar with Kevlar core.
2. Cotton bondage type rope
3. Soft braided cotton with Nylon Core
4. Cotton with steel cable core.
5. Twisted cotton
We will consider offering more than one option if there is a lot of different preferences.
Here are the advantages and disadvantages I see with each. There may be some factors I have forgotten.
1. Kevlar with Kevlar core: This is a good durable rope with medium flexibility. It is pricy, but the price is no prohibitive. I am mostly wondering if there are any undesirable properties, such as hard on the hands, etc.
2. Cotton bondage type rope: This will probably be your softest and more flexible rope. It is probably also the weakest, but at ½” diameter, it should be plenty strong.
3. Soft braided cotton with Nylon Core: This rope should be easy on the hands, and quite strong with the nylon core. This is a fairly flexible rope. I am not overly concerned with the nylon melting, because it is encased in the cotton and there will be good separation between the fire and the rope. This rope may have slight design patterns in it because it is used for nautical purposes. If the demand is sufficient, we may be able to have it custom made or dyed.
4. Cotton with steel cable core: This is a unique option because it can eliminate the link chain. The handle part can be made of soft cotton, and it can be striped down to cable on the fire ends. This makes for a continuous tool with no links, chains, knots or couplings along its length. Because of the steel core, this rope will be a bit stiffer. We currently only have this available up to 3/8” diameter, but we can probably find larger if there is a demand.
5. Twisted cotton: The twisted cotton will probably be harder on the hands and will be fairly stiff. This rope has the option of being braided back upon itself for a clean loop.
If you know of another type of rope that we have missed, let us know. We have ruled out any ropes that will melt.
What size rope is preferred? I was planning on using ½” or similar.
Do you prefer a stiffer rope or a softer rope?
Has anyone made a meteor that has a rigid handle in the middle, with chain coming out each end? I would make it from an aluminum tube for the handle and put a chuck swivel on each end. I am not sure if this has been done, but it would be like a looser version of a segmented staff.
Anyhow, this is your chance to influence our designs before we start making product. We greatly appreciate any input.
~Jaz
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Los Angeles
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Re: We need your input on our future rope dart and meteor designs.
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 5:43 AMEach provides its own unique flaws during use!
1. Kevlar, with wear, becomes extremely rough, and will cause severe rope burns and discomfort while spinning. One solution to this is taking sandpaper to the rope every now and then to get the burrs off. This of course reduces lifespan.
2. Cotton bondage type rope would be what I would want most. Down side is that the rope will stretch and be bouncy on shots. Braided rope is fairly key, though.
3. Soft braided cotton with nylon core is what I currently use. Its thin, light, and strong. It also gives really, really nasty rope burns to beginners (my hands are like leather where rope dart plays on them). The cotton WILL stretch, and the nylon WILL NOT, resulting in a somewhat baggy rope, that eventually gets saw-toothed nylon sticking out of cotton.
4. Cotton with steel cable core is seriously asking for trouble. Steel cable will destroy your hands, regardless of how much cover its got. Its also more expensive than the other options.
5. Twisted cotton (see bondage type rope, braided is a very important rope characteristic for me).
Then there's nylon bondage type rope. Its what I started with, and its what I recommend to beginners. Its soft, easy on the hands, and wears well (unlike my current rope, cotton braid with nylon core). With a 9-12 inch length of chain (I think mine is about 6-7 inches, actually), there is little concern in my mind of melting the rope.
As a matter of personal preference (and preferences vary enormously with dart), I want a very lightweight, smooth rope that can still handle the stress I put on it while spinning. Any thinner than 1/4" and rope burns because a severe hazard (esp. on the neck!), more than 1/2" the rope tends to become too heavy for my taste.
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Re: We need your input on our future rope dart and meteor designs.
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 2:01 PMPersonally, if i'm gonna put some rope on my meteor or dart, it's gonna be kevlar rope. otherwise it's chain.
but i like to do wraps, so...
i think your best option is to use kevlar.
covers all bases. especially important when selling to customers(who don't need to take an IQ test in order to use a credit card).
in a situation of wraps, nylon will melt,
cotton burn,
steel will heat up and burn whatever near it.
so my vote goes to kevlar.
(but really, i always say make it yourself).
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Re: We need your input on our future rope dart and meteor designs.
Tue, February 26, 2008 - 6:23 PMI've got opinions, but I think that everything that I use is not the type of product that you want to sell, judging by other TC items. All for the same reason: many of the components I use on my equipment are not made to last for long. I replace my #20 ball chain every 9 months, or as soon as it shows decent elongation compared with a control peice with the same number of links. I replace my rope every 4-5 months, because I use 8mm static cord for climbing. Static cord has around .05% elongation at 500lbs load, meaning it is basically without stretch at our levels, and has a quite smooth exterior, but if it ever falls into the fire, it should be replaced very soon after that. Aramid core rope is good, but loses its strength significantly with use full aramid ropes with a nomex sheath are still too abrasive and will saw through your flesh.
On rope dart, I seriously encourage the use of swivels. If you do an elbow shot while turning quickly, you can send enough of a twist down the rope that it will whip a non-swiveled head off course significantly. That's why I use ball chain, but Ive thought seriously about marine swivels and welded link chain.
Along the same lines, dart heads are really abused. I suggest cathedrals with a big bolt over turks head knots or monkeyfists, because the rope wicks take abrasion and disentegrate...
On the other hand, with meteors, I like ones made like Jared's. Look up on the pictures in the Fire Meteor tribe, Jared did a pretty good howto, even put in the McMaster part numbers. :)
I don't know what of this will be useful to you, because most of those parts are considered consumable... making a product that has a lifespan of more than a year or 150 burns will be tough.
